I particularly appreciated the emphasis on communication as a two-way street and the forward-looking take on by-the-glass programs as essential for building curiosity and accessibility in today’s wine culture.
Structure of wine is by and large objective. Tastes and aromas are subjective. Hence, it makes sense to approach the customer from the objective metric before introducing the subjective side.
Great read, and I do fully agree that there should be two way communication. Servers and somms don’t rely on telepathy after all, nor should we expect them to. That said, with regard to the upsell comment or alternate suggestions, that comment was specifically aimed at situations where I have already told the server what I want. At that stage, it’s no longer their responsibility I think to steer me in a better direction, but rather make sure that I get what I have ordered. With the don’t serve my wine for me, I agree, that might not be for everyone, and I’m not necessarily blaming the staff in the event where their management forces them to. That said, there is usually pretty decent contextual clues that would indicate we would rather be in charge of our own wine pours that I do think an adequately observant waiter could pick up on. I will of course not become belligerent should someone pour for me, it is a minor issue at the end of the day, but one that does come back to sloppy, uneven and heavy handed pours that don’t take into account where the guests are at with their wine. As for opening a bottle table side, I think that can be a fun experience, if done well. Cringeworthy if done by someone who clearly finds pulling a cork out to be a challenge, despite having a perfectly good waiters friend to hand.
I do actually assume the situations we're all sharing are likely more specific than these genralizations are allowing for - so I suspect that if I was at the table with you, I wouldn't disagree with what was off or wrong about the service. BUT, wanted to riff on these genralizations to make sure we're covering all bases, and getting all POVs on the table. That said, I still might disagree on the topic of waiters / somms suggesting something, even after you've stated clearly what you want. I don't think there are many situations where it makes sense to do it, and as with all of these theoretical situations, there's a non-obnoxious way and a very obnoxious way to go about it (and most somms are not actually great at nuanced delivery or even understanding why they should be) but there are at least two off-the-top-of-my-head reasons I might think it was important to at least mention, depending on the cues.
Fair enough, and it does I suspect depend entirely on how firm the customers decision is. If they’re clearly hesitant and go “I guess I’ll have a glass of Cabernet?”, it might be worth suggesting that it likely would be better to have a crisp white with their bouillabaisse. But if someone goes “I’ll have a glass of your (insert highly specific wine) please”, without any hint of hesitation, then they’ve clearly made a call, even if you as a server might think their pairing is off. That’s when to walk away.
It’s always interesting how we interpret these situations! So, for my end, I was thinking of situations more peculiar and specific - for example, you order a Cabernet, firmly, no question marks, but maybe we have a rarer wine of a similar style, and we're on the last bottle, with no idea if we’ll be able to restock it, so last chance. I might mention that, just to be sure you don’t want to miss the opportunity. At the very least, maybe you consider it as a second bottle if the meal goes on long enough. Things like that - where it can make sense but not be about challenging the wisdom of your decision or anything annoying like that. To paraphrase your own article: “If you want ice in your wine, is that a travesty? Yes. Do we give it to you anyway? Yes.” But I might mention - once - that we can put the bottle in a chilled bucket instead, in case what you wanted was just the cold and not the dilution. (But if you WANT the dilution? Cool.)
Isn’t it shocking I don’t agree with those 95% of Americans. I just find it so pretentious- regardless of why “the VinePair” drone on about why it needs to be table-side. Lucky I don’t listen to that podcast or read their articles, so I get to miss it. Buuut, I didn’t say pour the wines behind the scenes- just open it- bring to table- serve it like normal, let someone taste. It is the opening at the table bit I can’t stand.
The "pouring behind the scenes" seems to be something that happens regularly at places that open the bottle non-table-side, so it seems to be an issue that goes hand-in-hand. I know you didn't specifiy that part of it, but opening the bottle at the table seems to alleviate it, at least. Personally, I don't care either way, per se, I definitely don't want the opening of the bottle to be a dog and pony show, which is the thing that often comes hand-in-hand with THAT style of service. But show the bottle, make sure it's what we thought it was, then in 99/100 cases, just open it, quick and easy, then let the orderer taste. Happy mediums!
I particularly appreciated the emphasis on communication as a two-way street and the forward-looking take on by-the-glass programs as essential for building curiosity and accessibility in today’s wine culture.
Structure of wine is by and large objective. Tastes and aromas are subjective. Hence, it makes sense to approach the customer from the objective metric before introducing the subjective side.
Great read, and I do fully agree that there should be two way communication. Servers and somms don’t rely on telepathy after all, nor should we expect them to. That said, with regard to the upsell comment or alternate suggestions, that comment was specifically aimed at situations where I have already told the server what I want. At that stage, it’s no longer their responsibility I think to steer me in a better direction, but rather make sure that I get what I have ordered. With the don’t serve my wine for me, I agree, that might not be for everyone, and I’m not necessarily blaming the staff in the event where their management forces them to. That said, there is usually pretty decent contextual clues that would indicate we would rather be in charge of our own wine pours that I do think an adequately observant waiter could pick up on. I will of course not become belligerent should someone pour for me, it is a minor issue at the end of the day, but one that does come back to sloppy, uneven and heavy handed pours that don’t take into account where the guests are at with their wine. As for opening a bottle table side, I think that can be a fun experience, if done well. Cringeworthy if done by someone who clearly finds pulling a cork out to be a challenge, despite having a perfectly good waiters friend to hand.
I do actually assume the situations we're all sharing are likely more specific than these genralizations are allowing for - so I suspect that if I was at the table with you, I wouldn't disagree with what was off or wrong about the service. BUT, wanted to riff on these genralizations to make sure we're covering all bases, and getting all POVs on the table. That said, I still might disagree on the topic of waiters / somms suggesting something, even after you've stated clearly what you want. I don't think there are many situations where it makes sense to do it, and as with all of these theoretical situations, there's a non-obnoxious way and a very obnoxious way to go about it (and most somms are not actually great at nuanced delivery or even understanding why they should be) but there are at least two off-the-top-of-my-head reasons I might think it was important to at least mention, depending on the cues.
Fair enough, and it does I suspect depend entirely on how firm the customers decision is. If they’re clearly hesitant and go “I guess I’ll have a glass of Cabernet?”, it might be worth suggesting that it likely would be better to have a crisp white with their bouillabaisse. But if someone goes “I’ll have a glass of your (insert highly specific wine) please”, without any hint of hesitation, then they’ve clearly made a call, even if you as a server might think their pairing is off. That’s when to walk away.
It’s always interesting how we interpret these situations! So, for my end, I was thinking of situations more peculiar and specific - for example, you order a Cabernet, firmly, no question marks, but maybe we have a rarer wine of a similar style, and we're on the last bottle, with no idea if we’ll be able to restock it, so last chance. I might mention that, just to be sure you don’t want to miss the opportunity. At the very least, maybe you consider it as a second bottle if the meal goes on long enough. Things like that - where it can make sense but not be about challenging the wisdom of your decision or anything annoying like that. To paraphrase your own article: “If you want ice in your wine, is that a travesty? Yes. Do we give it to you anyway? Yes.” But I might mention - once - that we can put the bottle in a chilled bucket instead, in case what you wanted was just the cold and not the dilution. (But if you WANT the dilution? Cool.)
For sure, and to be fair, I think I’d be pretty happy with the service you described there.
Having a waiter open an older bottle of Riesling (1975) was not a good choice by me.
I haven't been forced to open a bottle older than 10 years at a table yet, and I am *not* looking forward to the day that happens!
An ah so is your friend. Has made the occasional 30+ bottle a doddle to pop.
Ah that adds another layer of difficulty! Broken cork I’m guessing?
Those older Rieslings have slimmer corks and tend to have a touch more seepage, so it isn’t so much broken as soaked through and through.
Isn’t it shocking I don’t agree with those 95% of Americans. I just find it so pretentious- regardless of why “the VinePair” drone on about why it needs to be table-side. Lucky I don’t listen to that podcast or read their articles, so I get to miss it. Buuut, I didn’t say pour the wines behind the scenes- just open it- bring to table- serve it like normal, let someone taste. It is the opening at the table bit I can’t stand.
The "pouring behind the scenes" seems to be something that happens regularly at places that open the bottle non-table-side, so it seems to be an issue that goes hand-in-hand. I know you didn't specifiy that part of it, but opening the bottle at the table seems to alleviate it, at least. Personally, I don't care either way, per se, I definitely don't want the opening of the bottle to be a dog and pony show, which is the thing that often comes hand-in-hand with THAT style of service. But show the bottle, make sure it's what we thought it was, then in 99/100 cases, just open it, quick and easy, then let the orderer taste. Happy mediums!
Yes.